I have noted that currently research is quite linear. For example bombs, each advancement gives the same increment in damage until all stops at level 10. This is not particularly realistic and removes the incentive to invest in or switch to a new advanced tech. This is because there is no diminishing returns for pursuing a current weapon tech and means an artificial cap is needed. Initially research should be slow with small advancements, then as things start to take off large advancements are made, then finally things start to slow down and more and more research is required for smaller and smaller advancements (the point at which it makes sense to switch to a new tech). With such a model an artificial cap at level 10 would not be needed. See sigmoid curve below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dvuv6a2yqdldxi/Sigmoidal.jpg
Linear Research and level 10 cap
Re: Linear Research and level 10 cap
I agree with part of this. Particularly in the engines portion of the propulsion tree, there is no differentiation between engine types in distance. Also, power usage and cost are of secondary importance to me, so I see no reason to not focus on nuclear engines and just keep on that tree. It'd be neat if newer engines actually were significantly better (or different) enough that it was worth researching them instead.
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True_poser
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- Location: Minsk
Re: Linear Research and level 10 cap
So, basically, you want to have each science progressing through stages:
- breakthrough - 0 - "oh, wow, that works! nothing in the 'verse can stop me nao"
- experimental tech - 1-3 - "oops, now to make it work only when we want it to"
- mature tech - 4-8 - "they've sent us the new firmware that allows all our missiles to ignore basic ECM! cool, huh?"
- old tech - 9-10 - "did you know that there is a cult dedicated to laser cannons?"
That's a nice idea, though I doubt it can be implemented in a way clear for all players.
At the moment I'd prefer more attention to research as it is - everything except biotech and construction is clearly underpowered.
- breakthrough - 0 - "oh, wow, that works! nothing in the 'verse can stop me nao"
- experimental tech - 1-3 - "oops, now to make it work only when we want it to"
- mature tech - 4-8 - "they've sent us the new firmware that allows all our missiles to ignore basic ECM! cool, huh?"
- old tech - 9-10 - "did you know that there is a cult dedicated to laser cannons?"
That's a nice idea, though I doubt it can be implemented in a way clear for all players.
At the moment I'd prefer more attention to research as it is - everything except biotech and construction is clearly underpowered.
Re: Linear Research and level 10 cap
No, I'd prefer for the different engine types to differentiate on more than just %power usage and %cost, i.e. at least offer a little difference on movement speed. Otherwise there seems to be little reason to research anything but Nuclear engines because you are far enough ahead by the time you find any other kind that it isn't worth switching.
The different armors are actually nice in that way. You can discover a new one and it'll be better enough that it is worth getting more levels.
Also, I agree that biotech and construction are much more powerful than the others. Although I think much of that is that there is due to there only being one or two things that I like in each of the other sections that I can then just tell the group to focus on.
The different armors are actually nice in that way. You can discover a new one and it'll be better enough that it is worth getting more levels.
Also, I agree that biotech and construction are much more powerful than the others. Although I think much of that is that there is due to there only being one or two things that I like in each of the other sections that I can then just tell the group to focus on.
Re: Linear Research and level 10 cap
What I'm taking so far from this thread:
- Make refinements progression exponentially harder (a curve) as you reach higher, making the last few levels very hard to reach. No change for Breakthroughs (L0->L1) as they are not guaranteed regardless of how much you pour research into, though the chance does increase.
- Engine types to have different movement speeds (moves/round)
- Make refinements progression exponentially harder (a curve) as you reach higher, making the last few levels very hard to reach. No change for Breakthroughs (L0->L1) as they are not guaranteed regardless of how much you pour research into, though the chance does increase.
- Engine types to have different movement speeds (moves/round)
Horizon - Lead Designer | a.k.a. Raf
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True_poser
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- Posts: 165
- Location: Minsk
Re: Linear Research and level 10 cap
There are two problems with research as it is (I've no doubt you're aware of them, I'll just reiterate them from a player's standpoint):
1) Research is slow (maybe, even too slow) at the begining of a game, but at the endgame you don't need even to focus - new level of any tech is within 3-4, maximum 7 turns reach.
Click turn, click turn, your Steamroller of Science cracks ancient mysteries of space and time even without noticing it.
It makes technology trading with other races at the endgame quite difficult - they may be not as advanced, but they know it all for sure.
2) Research is undeveloped, because the majority of the technologies does not make any difference gameplay-wise.
Invasion vechicles - mechs, tanks, attack planes, etc - there's no difference between them, they just give my invasion forces an integral rating.
Different engines - ok, their speeds slightly differ, but that's it.
Different powerplants - my ships don't run out of energy anyway.
Different armor types - absorbtion plus self-healing ftw.
Different weapons - I didn't get the difference.
And don't get me started about electronics. Stealth? Never heard about it.
A good rule of thumb would be - "Why would I want to spend all my resources on this tech?"
Terraforming - yes, it's a must, more colonies to the god of colonies.
Interstellar Com - of course, I need trade.
Genetic manipulations - no doubt, all-around boost from all-around better people.
Robotics and alloys - a major boost for a new empire, must have.
Nearly everything else - meh.
I'd like to be torn between equally lucrative techs - "WHY, WHY CAN'T I HAVE THEM ALL!".
Maybe even cut their number - I won't mind if my choices will become crucial.
1) Research is slow (maybe, even too slow) at the begining of a game, but at the endgame you don't need even to focus - new level of any tech is within 3-4, maximum 7 turns reach.
Click turn, click turn, your Steamroller of Science cracks ancient mysteries of space and time even without noticing it.
It makes technology trading with other races at the endgame quite difficult - they may be not as advanced, but they know it all for sure.
2) Research is undeveloped, because the majority of the technologies does not make any difference gameplay-wise.
Invasion vechicles - mechs, tanks, attack planes, etc - there's no difference between them, they just give my invasion forces an integral rating.
Different engines - ok, their speeds slightly differ, but that's it.
Different powerplants - my ships don't run out of energy anyway.
Different armor types - absorbtion plus self-healing ftw.
Different weapons - I didn't get the difference.
And don't get me started about electronics. Stealth? Never heard about it.
A good rule of thumb would be - "Why would I want to spend all my resources on this tech?"
Terraforming - yes, it's a must, more colonies to the god of colonies.
Interstellar Com - of course, I need trade.
Genetic manipulations - no doubt, all-around boost from all-around better people.
Robotics and alloys - a major boost for a new empire, must have.
Nearly everything else - meh.
I'd like to be torn between equally lucrative techs - "WHY, WHY CAN'T I HAVE THEM ALL!".
Maybe even cut their number - I won't mind if my choices will become crucial.